Response 8: Nov 3

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The Grossest Indian Stories in the World --audj, Tue, 01 Nov 2005 14:40:49 -0500 reply
I managed, even with the stomach flu, to read the better part of this book. The cover does the book no justice. In fact, it’s just ugly with the aqua and salmon colors and the bulky font for the title and author. I do, however, find the picture of the Native American and the fish on the cover. I find it’s repetition fascinating, but I could not connect it to the story. The themes do not seem to repeat in the book, which I thought would be the connection. I found the pictures to be almost a Warholish variation with the wild face paint, the purple clothes, and the bold sky and trees. The colors are loud. I think the book is kind of awful though. I’m not usually so close-minded to new stories, but the every detail about homosexuality and pedophilia were a little too much for my taste. I guess this book is an acquired taste. This book wasn’t just about sex though, it was about horrible sex. When the older woman has sex with the little boys, I started questioning whether or not I actually had the stomach flu or it was just the story. I thought it was interesting, too, to see Alexie’s perception of women. There were almost no beautiful women in the story, or at least not traditionally (last 100 years) beautiful. All the women are overweight with national geographic boobs, and coming from someone who is by no means an average weight person, it was gross. He has given me a whole new reason to continue my wedding diet. I thought it was nice to see a different perspective to Native American culture though. We don’t see these people really being ripped from their traditional lifestyle, but instead, we see regular people who happen to share a cultural background. I think the funniest story (as far as a storyline…How did he come up with this stuff?!) is South by Southwest where the white drifter holds up the IHOP and only walks away with forty two dollars and a fat Native American he names Salmon Boy. But the story goes sideways when they start to discover they are actually in love. Normally, homosexuality doesn’t bother me, but this was just too weird. It didn’t seem like they belonged together, but rather were just best friends. Alexie just seems like such a weirdo. I do like that Alexie gives us a chance to explore some different perspectives though particularly in One Good Man where we see a teacher who enters his father’s lifestyle, which appears to be very foreign to him, at the end of his father’s life. Their relationship is very apparent though; they love each other very much. But I like the idea that even though he was probably raised in this place, he is foreign to it an has to discover what being an Indian actually means. It made me cry a little, I won’t lie. I think the stories as a whole are good, but as I said, the sex stuff threw me through a loop.

Charlotte Harris --charris3, Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:29:00 -0500 reply
I have really enjoyed this book of the short stories by Sherman Alexie. I think that in their own way they each come up with different situations that all relate to the title of the book the Toughest Indian in the World. In the second story with that title of the Toughest Indian in the World, it is never quite said who the toughest one was. It was between the Flathead Indian that just stood and wouldn’t go down and then there was also the talk of the one who was the one fighting that kept giving tough punches and kicks, and showed that they were tough. In the first story Mary Lynn and Jeremiah are showing how tough they can be with their love. Since they have had to prove to everyone that a Indian woman and a white man could have a romantic relationship. They proved them wrong and had 4 children. Then Mary Lynn’s one desire came out in her and got her so hard that she wanted to have Sex with a Indian she didn’t care who it was but just as long as she was an Indian. And it seemed to be a pattern in the next story. When they stopped over night at the Motel the two guys had sex. The main things that most of the Indian cultures on the Reservations are based on are Sexuality, Strength, Education, and Drunks. I also liked that part that as I was looking up for my presentation that the Reservations are casinos and Bingo halls as a main form of gathering money and jobs for the tribes. They said that they aren’t all that worried about having a mafia come to the casinos. They said they weren’t sure that they could tell the difference between the mafia and the US government. The part where they hate the us government is really shown in the story “The Sin Eaters”. In there I thought that it was interesting that they had already had dreams of the people coming after them before they actually came. It also really surprised me that they were forcing the 12-year-old boy to have sex with an old woman. I thought it was horrible how the whites have pretty much just said that hey your nobodies and do what we want cause its all we know. They were not accepting to any type of change. It is shown in the short stories as to how they have to prove their love is real to each other and then just do what they say they have to do just to keep the white Americans somewhat pleasant. The other thing that I found really neat was how much of the culture Sherman Alexie put in from his Spokane culture. It was really neat to read about it and it helps bring knowledge of how people lived in that culture together. I thought that was really interesting. I have read another book by him and it had the same format he incorporated Indian history and their culture with fictional characters with somewhat of fictional settings and events that they go through. But the fact he had included his culture of his tribe is so neat. With such a different way as to looking at it then what they would be doing otherwise.

brieannel --Michelle, Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:27:15 -0500 reply
While reading the last few stories in Loot I realized that I enjoyed these stories much better than the previous ones. I thought these stories had more similarities in each other than did the prior ones. On Tuesday we discussed the authors constant mentioning of politics and sexuality. In each of these stories I noticed the importance of these topics. Some were more noticeable then others. One of the most obvious mentioning of these topics is in the story Homage. Homage is about a man that was hired by the government to assassinate some kind of important man. There are many references to politics in this story. The first and most obvious is the fact that the government hired him to carry out this job. The government choose him because he had very little to give up. He was poor and didn’t really have much of a family. Most likely he would not be noticed if he were to disappear. He is moved from country to country and given different names and identities each time. Most of the time he doesn’t even know the language the people speak in that country. Throughout that entire story he repeats the phrase “I don’t speak.” I think that this phrase has several different meanings. The first being that he doesn’t know the language so even if he wanted to he could not communicate. This was one way that the government could be sure that he wouldn’t tell anybody and they could get away with it. The other thing I think the character meant by this phrase was that he wasn’t worthy of speaking. He wasn’t really a person. He had no identity, which meant he had no feelings or thoughts. He mentions several times about not having his papers. This is another example of the use of politics. In this country you are nobody without papers. You have to have a social security number and a birth certificate in order for the government to realize that you exist. He said “no country counts me in its census.” With out these forms of identification no government considers a person alive. Sexuality is shown in this story through his description of things the man's wife said following the assassination. The way he talks about her description of him is almost like he wants to have a personal relationship with her. He continuously says that she always thinks about him. He even reads the things she says about him in the papers and corrects the things that aren’t right. I think that this shows his desire for any type of relationship especially that of a woman. Another interesting thing the character does after assassinating this man is going to his memorial site. This shows that even though he speaks as if he is nobody he does have some feelings. By him going to this site and taking flowers the character shows some type of remorse for what he has done. It also shows that he kind of longs to fit in. He visits this spot because it is what everyone else does. It not only makes him feel safe from being caught but it also makes him feel normal.

sarah haas --shaas1, Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:19:10 -0500 reply
I thought this book was a pretty easy read and I really enjoyed it. One thing that struck me as interesting is that although it was written about Native Americans, it can really be applied to any group of people, especially minorities. Several instances in the book dealt with someone from the group, in this case Native Americans, being married to a person of a different race. In Assimilation, Mary Lynn felt like she was missing out on something by not being with an Indian man. This motivated her to go out and find a random Indian man to have sex with. In Class, Edgar married a white woman and faced differences in his life. The part that really struck me as interesting in Class was when Sissy and Edgar have their conversation about the different worlds. Edgar is striving to be part of ‘their world’, but Sissy says “You sorry, sorry piece of shit. Do you know how much I want to live in your world? Do you know how much Junior wants to live in your world?” I feel like this is one of the reasons that Junior was so aggressive toward Edgar and wanted to fight him so bad. I think he could tell as soon as Edgar walked into the bar what type of person he is. People all have an aura about them, and Junior could tell that Edgar was not one of them. Also, I see this situation as a huge example of the phrase ‘you always want what you can’t have’. Edgar is living in the ‘white man’s world’ and has a good job and white wife, and is fairly successful in life. However, he feels like he is no longer a part of the Indian people, and Sissy agrees with him. When researching for my presentation I found a list of current issues being dealt with by American Indians and number one was ‘marrying other races’. Edgar’s marriage to a white woman is probably the main reason why those of his tribe do not see him as a complete Indian person anymore. It is interesting that he is the one with a successful life yet he is trying to relate to the struggling people at the bar. Sissy and Junior are identified completely as Indians yet they are striving to be out in the world that Edgar lives in, just because they see him as successful. Both of these different groups of people are longing for what they don’t have, but as soon as they were to get it I think they would find themselves longer for the other again. The last paragraph of this story was also very powerful to me. As I was reading the story I was taking it pretty much at surface level. However, the last line when Edgar says “ I was gone, but now I’m back” made me realize that his trip to the bar had a lot deeper meaning than I first took it to be. He came to touch with his inner self, and even though he longs to be identified in ‘their people’, I believe he has come to peace with himself.

Wild Indian~Jbradley --jbradley, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 00:10:55 -0500 reply
“The Toughest Indian in the World” is my favorite book we have read so far. I like it so much because of Alexie’s grammar and word style. He uses a lot of action and cursing words which make each chapter very dramatic and attention grabbing. I also think I like this book so much is because I didn’t know what to expect from it, so when I started reading it I was just so shocked by the inappropriate behavior. After reading the first couple of surprising events consisting of sexual fantasies, adulteries and fortifications, I found the sexual escapes to be very interesting. I was confused at the end of the first chapter “Assimilation”; on page 20, after the woman jumped off the bridge and Mary Lynn was still in her car and Jeremiah was still on the bridge… “...As he ran away from the place where the woman had jumped. Jeremiah ran across the bridge until he could see Mary Lynn. She and he loved each other across the distance.” Who was the woman and what connection did Jeremiah have with her? Confusing. Basically I had to view the book from another cultures perspective, a connection similar to the previous two books we have read. It’s interesting to learn about the Indian race through Alexie’s style of writing because he writes so passionately and emotionally that I can appreciate and view the situations from a cultural perspective. (Page 44) “Sexually speaking, Indian women and men are simultaneously promiscuous and modest.” I found that the first couple of chapters have stories that repeat each other containing similar use of words and situations. For instance in the “Toughest Indian” chapter on page 29, when the Indian hitchhiker was telling Geronimo about his fight, referring to the guy he beat up that,“ Wasn’t even tougher than me,” which I then compared that fight between Gironimo and Junior in “Class”. Also, all the stories contain some type of fantasy, thought or daydream by a character along with a strong emphasis on the senses. Especially smell, for example, the smell of “Indians” and salmon is used frequently within the chapters, page 23, “I loved the smell of Indians and of Indian hitchhikers in particular,” along with the smell of salmon in a physical and resembling form, (page 21) “All of us, Indian and white, are haunted by salmon.” Sight is emphasized in both a physical and mental form, for instance Susan is blind in one eye (physical) and I think Gironimo is “blind” to social class and status, also the characters describe people based on attractiveness, example, Gironimo’s scale from 1 - 10 of a woman’s appearance. Taste is also emphasized in the “Toughest Indian” when the hitchhiker is eating a piece of salty beef jerky and on page 4, when Mary Lynn was in the hotel room with the random Indian, “ His skin was salty and oily, the taste of a working man.” Touch is emphasized both in a sexually, physical (woman jumping off bridge) and abusive way (the fights) and lastly sense of hearing with the car horns, in the 1st chapter, in the 2nd chapter hearing the Indian sleeping and the talking during the sexual deeds, and hearing and using the word “Fuck” which was a surprise to hear by some of the characters. Because of Alexie’s style of writing and talent to grab the attention of the readers’ senses I don’t think I would have understood the dialect, culture or have been as interested in the book. Overall, the book is shockingly interesting.

Yikes!! --Kgifford, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 11:59:28 -0500 reply
I have a feeling that this book is going to cause some issues to be brought up in class that many people will not like to talk about in the class room. So far, I have only read the required portion of the book. It is not my normal style of readings. When I started reading, I did not expect the stories to be based so much sex and not just sex but sex that I do not like to think about.

Though the stories are easy to read and understand the story lines are not my favorite. I do not like reading about a woman cheating on her husband or two men having sex. It is not something I like to picture and when I read I picture everything. I see what I am reading like a movie. Let us just say picturing this was not a better part of my day. Even though I did not like the story lines, I did like the stories. They were easy to read and had understandable endings. That is always a positive factor for me. I hate when a story had no closure. I sit there thinking well that was a waste of time.

These first two stories are about people trying to deal with the uncertainties with in their lives, marriage, or job. It seems like they deal with it by having sex with people they have never met before. Mary Lynn cheats on her husband because she is bored and the main character in the short story The Toughest Indian in the World has sex with a man he picks up, hitchhiking, on the way to an interview.

The characters seem like they need to reconnect with their culture and they do it by having sex with other Native Americans. Mary Lynn was satisfied with just having sex with a stranger but the character in the second story becomes a hitchhiker himself, and presumably heading home, either in the literal sense or figuratively speaking.

I hope the rest of the reading is not so graphic about the sexual experiences of the characters in the short stories. I do not think I will like finishing this book if they are as explicit. I am willing to give the book a chance and keep reading, mainly because I cannot stop reading a book once I start it unless it really disgusts me or bores me.

I do not think every one will think the same way as I do about reading. Some people will either love this collection of stories or hate them all together and that will probably influence if they finish the book or not.

Craig Joseph --cjoseph1, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:09:44 -0500 reply
This has to be one of the easiest to read books we've had so far. The language is colorful but not overdone, and it perhaps so easy to read because vulgarity and sexuality are two of my favorite things. The language on occassion also seems to be turning the racism card onto white people as the objects of racism, which is interesting because its not done often. But anyway, to start with, I'm still trying to peace together Assimilation. The way it was written, it seems as if Jeremiah had some sort of connection with the woman jumping off the bridge at the end. Maybe this act as a whole symbolizes their marriage more or less hitting a deadend, but in the same regard the jumping seems to rekindle feelings for both Jeremiah and Mary Lynn: "Jeremiah ran across teh bridge until he could see Mary Lynn. She and he loved each other across the distance" (20). After he jumped out of the car, Mary Lynn was sure that the commotion was caused by Jeremiah's death which seems to be guilt running through her veins for being with the Indian earlier that night. They both had been contemplating their marriage, but soon as the woman jumped both spirits were reinvigorated with thoughts of one another: "My wife, I'm never leaving her,"(19) Jeremiah says. Another trace found through the first couple of stories is Alexie's use of the senses. In general, keen senses are extremely important to Indians so that they can decipher and remain at one with the natural world around them. As for Alexie's writing, smell seems to be the focal sense. While in the car in Assimilation, Mary Lynn is afraid that Jeremiah will smell the greasy Indian on her crotch, as well as teh beginning of Toughest Indian when we learn of the scent of Indian Hitchhikers.

Craig Joseph --cjoseph1, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:17:04 -0500 reply
This has to be one of the easiest to read books we've had so far. The language is colorful but not overdone, and it perhaps so easy to read because vulgarity and sexuality are two of my favorite things. The language on occassion also seems to be turning the racism card onto white people as the objects of racism, which is interesting because its not done often. But anyway, to start with, I'm still trying to peace together Assimilation. The way it was written, it seems as if Jeremiah had some sort of connection with the woman jumping off the bridge at the end. Maybe this act as a whole symbolizes their marriage more or less hitting a deadend, but in the same regard the jumping seems to rekindle feelings for both Jeremiah and Mary Lynn: "Jeremiah ran across teh bridge until he could see Mary Lynn. She and he loved each other across the distance" (20). After he jumped out of the car, Mary Lynn was sure that the commotion was caused by Jeremiah's death which seems to be guilt running through her veins for being with the Indian earlier that night. They both had been contemplating their marriage, but soon as the woman jumped both spirits were reinvigorated with thoughts of one another: "My wife, I'm never leaving her,"(19) Jeremiah says. Another trace found through the first couple of stories is Alexie's use of the senses. In general, keen senses are extremely important to Indians so that they can decipher and remain at one with the natural world around them. As for Alexie's writing, smell seems to be the focal sense. While in the car in Assimilation, Mary Lynn is afraid that Jeremiah will smell the greasy Indian on her crotch, as well as teh beginning of Toughest Indian when we learn of the particular love of the scent of Indian Hitchhikers. The senses of touch and taste is also focused on, specifically when MAry? Lynn is in the hotel room touching and tasting the oily skin of her partner. Now onto a part I'm still trying to peace together, the idea of everyone "Indian or White being haunted by salmon." I suppose in a relatively real sense we are all products of the food we eat, so when the salmon disappear and there is nothing left to eat the body and mind wither. Perhaps the salmon stands for something more metaphorical than that? I've been trying to think of different ways to go with this, and i feel like its on the tip of my tongue, but it keeps evading me. Hopefully class discussion will help with this.

Easy to follow Indian --agoddard, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:28:57 -0500 reply
So far I really enjoyed this book. It's short stories, which as I've already told you, I am not a big fan of. I liked these in Sherman Alexie's “Toughest Indian in the World” because they are more like a story; they have a plot to follow, and then somewhat of a conclusion. You don't exactly know what there is to come for the characters, but there is still some closure. In the first story, “Assimilation,” I really enjoyed the voice of the main character. She was a woman, and a very dynamic woman at that; I think the male author is talented to be able to switch from a great female voice, over to a great male one quickly. I also like how the author made the wife the cheater. I hate to pass on a stereotype, but in most stories that I have heard, the husband is unfaithful. It was nice to see the tables turned. With that being said also, the person that the author chose, or rather the character chose to cheat on her husband with, was a big surprise to me. I know it's in the title of the book, and that all of the stories will probably come back to someone being an Indian, but the sweaty, over weight, scared stranger, is not my ideal lover, and he didn't seem like hers either, he was chosen strictly on his nationality. Mary Lynn was very sarcastic, and a little pessimistic, but we saw her weaker side when she was on the bridge, not knowing what was next. The second story, the cover story, “The toughest Indian in the World,” started out a little slow. Talking about his work, the type of Indian he was, and a lot about his father. With that being said, mid- way through I could not put the book down, it took a very crazy turn that I wasn't expecting. When the main character picked up the fighter, they had small talk, nothing sexual, and then to be nice, he invited the fighter to stay at his hotel room, because it was so cold outside. Then out of nowhere, the fighter is making a pass at him, and the man is not really surprised, he actually kind of likes it. Maybe the fighter knew he wasn't going to mind, and that's why he went for his chance. I don't think it sank in until afterwards what had happened, because that is when he kicked the fighter out of the room. This story surprised me, but it kept my interest, so I like that. The first story was told from a narrator's point of view, and then you have to switch gears, because the next story, told by a guy, is through his eyes. I didn't even notice until I was almost finished with the stories, before I caught it. I like the way this book is written, and look forward to the rest of the novel.

Toughest Indian, Steve Sinning --ssinning, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:50:03 -0500 reply
In Sherman Alexi’s The Toughest Indian in the World, he tells a weird, love story called “Assimilation.” In this short story, an Indian woman and a white man are married and have several children. Throughout the beginning and middle part of the story, Alexi makes it seem as though Jeremiah and Mary Lynn are on the verge of divorce. In fact, Mary Lynn cheats on Jeremiah just because she wants to have sex with an Indian. Alexi indicated that Jeremiah is still in love with a white girl from high school. While Alexi makes most of the narrative seem like the marriage is about to end, it suddenly gets stronger within a matter of minutes. Mary Lynn and Jeremiah are stuck in traffic. Jeremiah gets out of the car and sees a woman who is about to jump off a bridge. Mary Lynn gets it in her head that Jeremiah was the one who jumped. Mary Lynn thought she had lost her husband and suddenly became upset. In my opinion, this sudden twist, or change in feelings is what makes “Assimilation” affective. Alexi shows that a shared event between two people, can completely change how they think. It takes this event for Mary Lynn to truly know that she loves her husband. The basic moral of the story is, “you don’t know how much you love someone until its possible they might be gone.” While this sounds corny, I believe it is true. A couple weeks ago, my house lost power for five days. On a daily basis I don’t stop and think “Wow power is really amazing. Instead, like most people, I take it for granted. In Mary Lynn’s case, she took her relationship for granted, and she even risked throwing it away. After this experience, it seems as though her attitude has changed and she has a new appreciation for love. Also, I enjoyed the style of this particular story. Alexi presents the reader with a sudden change. They style is simple and clearly stated, yet it engages the reader at the same time. While the story is short, he also includes serious issues of race and sex into this story. Although the read is quick and easy for the reader, several morals and messages are portrayed to the reader.

Autumn Means --ameans, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:57:02 -0500 reply
Differences in race and racism are a couple of the obvious and identifiable themes apparent in the first story of Sherman Alexie’s book The Toughest Indian in the World. The title of the story, Assimilation, ties together all of the issues concerning race in the story, because the characters are struggling with this concept of assimilation. They are having trouble defining their own race and the races of others. They make assumptions about others based on racial stereotypes, but at the same time, the characters seem to recognize the fact that they really don’t understand why or how certain races have acquired specific stereotypes. One of the best examples within the text that presents the main characters’ issues with race is the mention of affirmative action. Affirmative action is first mentioned on page 4, when Mary Lynn is attempting to justify her desire for infidelity to herself. “After all, she’d slept with a white stranger in her life, so why not include a Native American? Why not practice a carnal form of affirmative action? By God, her infidelity was a political act! Rebellion, resistance, revolution!” I think that this passage from the story represents Mary Lynn’s train of thought as somewhat sarcastic. She realizes that the reason she wants to sleep with an Indian man is not that she feels sympathy for him and wants to give him an equal opportunity (as corny as that sounds); she really wants to sleep with him to fulfill her own need to feel dangerous and different – to separate herself from all the other Indian women who have assimilated themselves into primarily white American society. The second mention of affirmative action in the story can be found when Mary Lynn and Jeremiah are outside of Tan Tan, waiting for their names to be called so they can get a table and have dinner. They are both frustrated at this point and, on page 11, Mary somewhat sarcastically says, “It’s getting hard for a white guy to find a place to eat.” And Jeremiah responds, “Damn affirmative action is what it is.” I interpreted these comments as a sort of dry-humor joke between wife and husband. Jeremiah feigns annoyance at the fact that he has to wait for a table because he’s white and there are minorities who are able to get tables just because they’re minorities. Another instance where this can be seen, without specific mention of affirmative action, is on page 13, when Mary Lynn is remembering Christmas and looking at her children and their features; she realizes that the two girls look white and the two boys look Indian. She decides that “the genetic score was tied.” Later on that same page, she suggests to her husband that they have another child to see if it’s a white family or an Indian family. Although most of these instances are portrayed as people sort of joking around with each other, it’s apparent that these issues of race are quite important to the main characters and they’re having difficulty coming to terms with their racial differences.

Jennings (Jay) Lyons --jlyons5, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:09:36 -0500 reply
The stories of “Assimilation” and “The Toughest Indian in the World” by Sherman Alexie were very easy to read because of how interesting sex makes a story. Sex along with murders, and other topicalities, makes a story more intriguing and a reader want to read the next line. One thing “Assimilation” that stuck out to me was how Mary Lynn was slightly controversial in what she said about hating men, but loving her husband. On page 4, Mary Lynn’s hatred is described “She walked a slow tight circle around the Indian. She stood behind him, reached around his thick waist, and held his erected penis. He moaned and she decided that she hated him. She decided to hate all men. Hate, hate, hate, she thought and then she let her hate go.” These lines make a reader wonder why the hell she married. There is a lot of hatred coming from Mary Lynn. Why did she want to cheat on her husband with a worthless fling with an Indian man? Why does she have this hatred built up? Did she have all this hatred because of the unsatisfication with her love making ability? But she loved her husband, “Husband, comeback to me, she thought, and I will confess” (17). This line takes place while she was talking about her children, she does love him. The next line reads “Listen to me, listen to me, listen to me, she thought as she pounded the steering wheel.” This line is a cry that she loves her husband but she is begging for more attention, in every aspect of life. She feels her husband is always trying to figure out what is going on outside in the rest the world, but not inside, within her. Mary Lynn is now thinking about death as she pounds on her steering wheel just hoping and wishing her husband would listen. “She wondered if this was how the world was supposed to end, with everybody trapped on a bridge, with the black water pushing against their foundations.” Then, without much detail or ending, Alexie writes “She and he loved each other across the distance.” (20). This line kindof briefly wraps the moment of what Mary Lynn was wanting. Her husband, more than anything just wants to be a good husband and father. And being so close to death makes him realize that he is not exactly where he wants to be in physical location or with himself and his happiness with his wife. Alexie doesn’t really give to much of an ending on this story but I would assume the happy ending of Mary Lynn’s husband finally realizing he has been neglecting he wife’s emotions. And/or Mary Lynn talks to her husband about how she feels and what she’s done and why, and maybe they both make efforts of stay together for the kids.

Breanne Alioto --bre4nne, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:04:28 -0500 reply
This book was not at all what I expeted. It was very very graphic to say the least, during the sexual scenes anyways. I thought that the book gave a new outlook for me anways on the was Native Americans in our society grow up. I found it interesting that The main charactar in the story was only alowwed to pick up indian hitchhikers as a young child, and through that influence he has followed that tradition as an older man. I was very taken aback by the scene where he picked up the "toughest indian in the world". I was not expecting the scene in the hotel room to happen at all. Especially becuase the character had always brouht himself across as straight. I think after wards the character left so abrubtly because he felt ashamed of what he had done. I find it interesting that he also uses the fact that he is native american to pick up women. I also find it interesting about the comment he made about going for the tenth hottest woman in the room. I was suprised to find that his marriage was so suffereing and the scene in the bar the day he left his wife at his home was a very intense one. The fact that he had so many problems with other minorities because he was scene as an upper class minority (in his polo and khakies). This book was a pretty easy read and easy to follow which is why I like it so much. I have no finished the whole book yet, but I am looking forward to reading on because I think that Alexie is a very good reader and this story has definitly kept my attention the whole time. This book was very sexual, but I think it is good that Alexie addresses these issues in a book becuase not many people are able to talk about them. I think this book probably caused alot of controversy for being published because of its graphic nature.

Breanne Alioto --bre4nne, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:04:35 -0500 reply
This book was not at all what I expeted. It was very very graphic to say the least, during the sexual scenes anyways. I thought that the book gave a new outlook for me anways on the was Native Americans in our society grow up. I found it interesting that The main charactar in the story was only alowwed to pick up indian hitchhikers as a young child, and through that influence he has followed that tradition as an older man. I was very taken aback by the scene where he picked up the "toughest indian in the world". I was not expecting the scene in the hotel room to happen at all. Especially becuase the character had always brouht himself across as straight. I think after wards the character left so abrubtly because he felt ashamed of what he had done. I find it interesting that he also uses the fact that he is native american to pick up women. I also find it interesting about the comment he made about going for the tenth hottest woman in the room. I was suprised to find that his marriage was so suffereing and the scene in the bar the day he left his wife at his home was a very intense one. The fact that he had so many problems with other minorities because he was scene as an upper class minority (in his polo and khakies). This book was a pretty easy read and easy to follow which is why I like it so much. I have no finished the whole book yet, but I am looking forward to reading on because I think that Alexie is a very good reader and this story has definitly kept my attention the whole time. This book was very sexual, but I think it is good that Alexie addresses these issues in a book becuase not many people are able to talk about them. I think this book probably caused alot of controversy for being published because of its graphic nature.

... --jfroess, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:51:54 -0500 reply
This book was notwhat I was expecting to read, but I liked it and it is the easiest to understand. I can't believe just from these first two stories how much sexuality is in the book so far. I really like the first story alot. I like how all through the book it talks about their doubts for each other and her longing to be with an indian. I think she felt that way because no matter how much he loved her they still had a big issue seperating them (race) that they just couldn't get past. I wa wonderng if people in interracial relationships or marriages ever thing the way mary anne did in the book and long to be with someone or anyone their own race, no matter how much they loved their partner. If you've never dated outside yoru race, though, it's hard to imagine how you would feel. We can't really imagine what she was experiencing. The book was easy to relate to in the end because in alot of life situations it just takes something tragic to make you realize how you feel about someone. It was like when the lady jumped all of their animosity and reservations about each other and their relationship jumped over the bridge with her and they realized how important they were to each other. I don't understand the references to the salmon in the story. What does the salmon symbolize? It said that all the salmon died out..maybe they are making a reference to how they feel their people and cultures and way of life died out with them. This book definitely shows the animosity they hold against white people. If you think about it, though, can we blame them? We've never had to struggle the way minorities have. We symbolize white people and their families having this simple, perfect life in our perfect houses with our perfect kids.We kicked the indians off their land and attacked their people. And even though there are civil rights now the govt still takes their land and moves them to anothjer place. I feel I have never met an indian in my life. I never really thought about it in depth before, but could we be responsible for wiping out an entire people? For many reasons that we can think of and others we probably havent thought of the resentment towards white people comes out strongly in this book. And I cant say I blame them. I was really surprised in teh second story, though, how liberated and upbeat the indian was after he had sex with the other indian. I feel there;s was more of a spiritual, cultural connection. And as weird as it sounds, i didnt look at this as much as gay act as i would have if it was just 2 white people. I feel there is something there in their culture and who they are that we as white people don't have. I feel that this characters have more history and more to say. When they were talking about picking up hitchhikers they said they never hesitated to pick up an indian, but they would drive right past a white person. Obviously, they may not trust us, or they may just think we don't deserve to be picked up. But then again, we don't trust us either. I dont know anyone who would pick up a hitch hiker white or other, but the indians show to have a bond that they know they won't turn turn their back on the other, and that there is no reason to show distrust in each other. I really like this book so far, I'm excited to read the other stories because I have an interest in indians and their culture that I did not have before.

sam cole --scole, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:36:31 -0500 reply
When i read the title "The Toughest Indian in the World" I was kind of expecting something a little more different then the first tow stories i read i imagined some hero Indian who saves his village or something but what I got was something completely different I’m not saying that I didn’t enjoy the book I did, most of it. In both stories something very dramatic happens at the end that changes the lives and views of the main characters in Assimilation it takes fear of her husband Jeremiah being dead for Mary Lynn to realize that she really does love him and he also realizes that he only wants to be with his wife when he’s at the scene of the suicide. But the ending of the toughest Indian in the world bothered me a little because it was not so clear to me why the two of them had to have anal sex at the end of the book. Through the book you see that the main character is drawl to the tough Indian he thinks that this guy is a true Indian and is Impressed by the fights hes been in and the way he lives his life, he says that if he had lived back in the day he would have been a warrior and a killer. He sees himself as not really being a true Indian he dates white girls he works for the newspaper he has to use an Indian slang word “enit” to show that he is a true Indian and that he had lived on the reservation because he does not think that someone would be able to tell just by looking at him. I believe this is why they do end up having anal sex at the end of the story. The main character lets the toughest Indian come inside of him and ejaculate inside him and maybe he thinks that some of the tough Indian is going to rube off on him by letting him do this he has become more Indian. Then at the end he walks barefoot up river and this seems like some spiritual Indian act maybe the sex actually made him fell more Indain. In both stories there is some sexual act that changes the story in the first story the women has sex with a fat Indian with scars on his belly and in toughest Indian in the world the man lets a dirty bum of a Indian sodamize him. I don’t know why the author makes sex such a crude thing why is it with such a disgusting person.

Jamie Green --jamieallison, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:42:01 -0500 reply
This is by far my favorite book that we have read so far. I could not put it down. Unlike the other books we have read, where I found myself going back and rereading things with this book I could not stop reading. I feel that Alexie is an excellent writer. It was so easy to read and interesting as well.

I found the story Assimilation to be very interesting. It was not just one part but the whole story was truly interesting to me. It seemed so real. So many stories especially love stories are all happy and fake, this just seemed to be very real to me. I thought it was a pretty good representation of real love and marriage, not story book love. Mary Lynn and Jeremiah’s love, although it may not seem like the ideal relationship, is true love. Even though she actually went through with the affair with the random Indian, I do not think that it mean anything to her and if anything it just showed her how much more she loved her husband. I know it kind of sounds crazy but it was almost like she did not appreciate what she had until she got a taste of something else.

Another part of the story which I think really proved their true love was at the end on the bridge. After witnessing the woman jump Jeremiah realized how much he really loved Mary Lynn and could not live without her. I thought it was really shown when he screamed Mary Lynn’s name after watching the woman and the man jump off the bridge. I only hope that when I am older that someone will love me that much and care for me that much that when something serious like that happens all they can think about is me and wanting to be with me forever. At the same time Mary Lynn was hitting the steering wheel of her car just worried that the people rushing over were rushing over to Jeremiah and realizing how much she truly loved this white man. Then when he ran away from the crowd just to see her again it was obvious how real their love is. The Story ended by saying, “She and he loved each other across the distance.” I thought that was a great way to end this story. It made it seem like they did not have to be touching but only to know that the other one is alright and to see that person they could breathe again.

One thing which really confused me about this story was the constant talk of race. It was brought up frequently but I did not think that it had much meaning in the story. I know that she was Indian and he was white but I found it ridiculous with them talking about loving certain kids of their more than others. Like him saying he would love his daughters more and her only seeing herself in her sons. It was just weird for me to think that people can actually favor one child over another.

Jamie Green --jamieallison, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:42:26 -0500 reply
This is by far my favorite book that we have read so far. I could not put it down. Unlike the other books we have read, where I found myself going back and rereading things with this book I could not stop reading. I feel that Alexie is an excellent writer. It was so easy to read and interesting as well.

I found the story Assimilation to be very interesting. It was not just one part but the whole story was truly interesting to me. It seemed so real. So many stories especially love stories are all happy and fake, this just seemed to be very real to me. I thought it was a pretty good representation of real love and marriage, not story book love. Mary Lynn and Jeremiah’s love, although it may not seem like the ideal relationship, is true love. Even though she actually went through with the affair with the random Indian, I do not think that it mean anything to her and if anything it just showed her how much more she loved her husband. I know it kind of sounds crazy but it was almost like she did not appreciate what she had until she got a taste of something else.

Another part of the story which I think really proved their true love was at the end on the bridge. After witnessing the woman jump Jeremiah realized how much he really loved Mary Lynn and could not live without her. I thought it was really shown when he screamed Mary Lynn’s name after watching the woman and the man jump off the bridge. I only hope that when I am older that someone will love me that much and care for me that much that when something serious like that happens all they can think about is me and wanting to be with me forever. At the same time Mary Lynn was hitting the steering wheel of her car just worried that the people rushing over were rushing over to Jeremiah and realizing how much she truly loved this white man. Then when he ran away from the crowd just to see her again it was obvious how real their love is. The Story ended by saying, “She and he loved each other across the distance.” I thought that was a great way to end this story. It made it seem like they did not have to be touching but only to know that the other one is alright and to see that person they could breathe again.

One thing which really confused me about this story was the constant talk of race. It was brought up frequently but I did not think that it had much meaning in the story. I know that she was Indian and he was white but I found it ridiculous with them talking about loving certain kids of their more than others. Like him saying he would love his daughters more and her only seeing herself in her sons. It was just weird for me to think that people can actually favor one child over another.

Jamie Green --jamieallison, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:42:31 -0500 reply
This is by far my favorite book that we have read so far. I could not put it down. Unlike the other books we have read, where I found myself going back and rereading things with this book I could not stop reading. I feel that Alexie is an excellent writer. It was so easy to read and interesting as well.

I found the story Assimilation to be very interesting. It was not just one part but the whole story was truly interesting to me. It seemed so real. So many stories especially love stories are all happy and fake, this just seemed to be very real to me. I thought it was a pretty good representation of real love and marriage, not story book love. Mary Lynn and Jeremiah’s love, although it may not seem like the ideal relationship, is true love. Even though she actually went through with the affair with the random Indian, I do not think that it mean anything to her and if anything it just showed her how much more she loved her husband. I know it kind of sounds crazy but it was almost like she did not appreciate what she had until she got a taste of something else.

Another part of the story which I think really proved their true love was at the end on the bridge. After witnessing the woman jump Jeremiah realized how much he really loved Mary Lynn and could not live without her. I thought it was really shown when he screamed Mary Lynn’s name after watching the woman and the man jump off the bridge. I only hope that when I am older that someone will love me that much and care for me that much that when something serious like that happens all they can think about is me and wanting to be with me forever. At the same time Mary Lynn was hitting the steering wheel of her car just worried that the people rushing over were rushing over to Jeremiah and realizing how much she truly loved this white man. Then when he ran away from the crowd just to see her again it was obvious how real their love is. The Story ended by saying, “She and he loved each other across the distance.” I thought that was a great way to end this story. It made it seem like they did not have to be touching but only to know that the other one is alright and to see that person they could breathe again.

One thing which really confused me about this story was the constant talk of race. It was brought up frequently but I did not think that it had much meaning in the story. I know that she was Indian and he was white but I found it ridiculous with them talking about loving certain kids of their more than others. Like him saying he would love his daughters more and her only seeing herself in her sons. It was just weird for me to think that people can actually favor one child over another.

Jamie Green --jamieallison, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:42:38 -0500 reply
This is by far my favorite book that we have read so far. I could not put it down. Unlike the other books we have read, where I found myself going back and rereading things with this book I could not stop reading. I feel that Alexie is an excellent writer. It was so easy to read and interesting as well.

I found the story Assimilation to be very interesting. It was not just one part but the whole story was truly interesting to me. It seemed so real. So many stories especially love stories are all happy and fake, this just seemed to be very real to me. I thought it was a pretty good representation of real love and marriage, not story book love. Mary Lynn and Jeremiah’s love, although it may not seem like the ideal relationship, is true love. Even though she actually went through with the affair with the random Indian, I do not think that it mean anything to her and if anything it just showed her how much more she loved her husband. I know it kind of sounds crazy but it was almost like she did not appreciate what she had until she got a taste of something else.

Another part of the story which I think really proved their true love was at the end on the bridge. After witnessing the woman jump Jeremiah realized how much he really loved Mary Lynn and could not live without her. I thought it was really shown when he screamed Mary Lynn’s name after watching the woman and the man jump off the bridge. I only hope that when I am older that someone will love me that much and care for me that much that when something serious like that happens all they can think about is me and wanting to be with me forever. At the same time Mary Lynn was hitting the steering wheel of her car just worried that the people rushing over were rushing over to Jeremiah and realizing how much she truly loved this white man. Then when he ran away from the crowd just to see her again it was obvious how real their love is. The Story ended by saying, “She and he loved each other across the distance.” I thought that was a great way to end this story. It made it seem like they did not have to be touching but only to know that the other one is alright and to see that person they could breathe again.

One thing which really confused me about this story was the constant talk of race. It was brought up frequently but I did not think that it had much meaning in the story. I know that she was Indian and he was white but I found it ridiculous with them talking about loving certain kids of their more than others. Like him saying he would love his daughters more and her only seeing herself in her sons. It was just weird for me to think that people can actually favor one child over another.

james mcceney --jmcceney50, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:16:35 -0500 reply
The first thing that really caught my attention from these two stories was the complete lack of anything overtly “Indian.” There was no mythology, no mysticism, no talking creatures…they just seemed like sort of mundane stories that anyone was capable of telling. I figured that since this was “Native American Literature,” the elements we usually associate with Indian myth and legend would be overtly prevalent; this was not the case. Mysticism and mythology were only present on a metaphorical level, and only in one of the stories; I was expecting something more like “The Bear in the Road” in Resistance to be present throughout Alexie’s book. I think the exact opposite is true: I mean, in “Assimilation,” Alexie describes the couple going through the taco bell drive thru. This hardly lives up to the reputation that I am used to for Indian literature. I kept expecting a phoenix to rise out of their nachos belgrande or something.

There is a method to Alexie’s madness, though: it seems like he is sort of thumbing his nose at the white man’s stereotype of what it means to write for Indians. Rather than tell mystical stories about “The Yellow Woman” or “The Origin of Tobacco,” he weaves tales of everyday life: tales of the results of white society’s corruption of the Red Man’s way of life. Alexie launches a direct assault on the forced assimilation of the Indian by Americans by relaying exactly how mundane their lives have become: the title of the first story says it all - “Assimilation.” The Indian has been forced to mimic white culture since America was colonized, and their culture has all been destroyed as a result. What used to be the noble savage who grew his own food and lived off the land is now picking up hitchhikers and eating at taco bell.

The extremely graphic sex scenes in “The Toughest Indian in the World” were pretty shocking: they came seemingly out of nowhere and were VIVIDLY descriptive. I think the depiction of the sex was pretty standard for a modern book such as this: in my opinion, the act was recorded fairly matter-of-factly, and without too much pornographic connotation. Was it any less shocking than the sex scene in Murakami’s “Honey Pie?” By the way it was described in this story, I think it’s open to debate. The sex in “Honey Pie” was the culmination of a lifetime of shared love between two people: the scene represented two hearts becoming one in an act of mutual joy. The sex scene in this book was to the point and almost utilitarian in a way: the act is committed with little or no emotional basis on either side, and is an extreme surprise when it happens. In “Honey Pie,” the sex is fairly predictable, and in fact the reader may find himself actually rooting for the characters to do it. I think the sex scene in “The Toughest Indian in the World” raises a number of questions about sexuality and the device of sex in literature: what is shocking? What is love? What effects can sex have on male and female characters? Is homosexual sex any more shocking than heterosexual sex? These questions are important ones, and I think are extremely relevant to the overall story.

Casey Tominack--Toughest Little Indian --ctominac, Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:45:10 -0500 reply
I have really enjoyed all of the stories in this book so far; however, I thought the first story, Assimilation, brought up some really interesting issues. I would like to first discuss a passage on page 3. Mary Lynn was questioning her desire to have an affair: “Why exactly did she want to have sex with an Indian stranger? She told herself it was because of pessimism, existentialism, even nihilism, but those reasons--those words--were a function of her vocabulary and not of her motives.” The stereotype of most Indian women is worth noting here. Honestly, if asked if I ever thought an Indian women would have an affair, I would have said no. But, the sheer reality is that affairs can happen to anyone, and usually when they do, they person having the affair will deny their motives to the end. Actually, in a Cont. Communications class that I am in, my professor stated some surprising statistics about affairs: 60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an extramarital affair, and at least one partner will have one in approximately 80 percent of all marriages. I could not believe this, nor do I want to. But, my point is, no one is immune to an affair, including Indian women such as Mary Lynn.

Another point deals with the end of the story when Mary Lou is sitting in the car while Jeremiah runs ahead. She fears that the commotion has something to do with Jeremiah and she panics. In the meantime--and after the girl had jumped because of a man named Aaron--Jeremiah realizes that he will never leave his wife. For, “she and he loved each other across the distance.” This happens to people all the time. But, really, should it take an affair to really realize that you love your spouse?

I believe we can only understand monogamy and affairs in a societal context, in terms of the attitudes of society as a whole. Normally, when we try to understand why affairs happen we look only at the reasons why a person might want to have an affair, such as the excitement of sexual variety. But this doesn't explain why affairs happen. People may want to have affairs for a wide range of reasons, but their decision to act on those desires is affected by the values and actions of those around them. As a society, we re fascinated by the idea of hearing about another’s affair--TV, movies, magazines, etc.--but, really, we should realize that it is happen constantly to real-life couples. It is not something that should glamorize.

Christopher Glover: Toughest Indian in the World --cglover, Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:37:40 -0500 reply
I found this book to be a really interesting read in regards to the author’s writing style. The writing style in the first two stories seems to be very different. I felt as though Alexie really captured the voices of the narrators. For example, in Assimilation, the narrator is an Indian woman by the name of Mary Lynn. On page 10, the narrator is discussing the educational history of herself and her husband. She describes herself as having “majored in Milton and Blake.” This reference to famous and historical authors is seen throughout the story, which magnificently captured the voice of the narrator. This is how I would expect someone who had majored in English or literature to look at things in life. Always referring it to some story they have read or some literary figure they have studied. More examples of this can be seen throughout the text. Also on page 10, she is referring to her boss whose last name is Dickinson, and how Jeremiah hoped his first name wasn’t Emery. Another example would be on page 10, when she links her marriage to a Runnette poem, which would be named “More Infidelity.” And yet one other example would be when her husband Jeremiah comes to the realization that his wife is a constant and states, “He found the one truth Shakespeare had never knew: gravity is overrated.”

On the other hand, the narrator in the Toughest Indian in the World seems to be more influenced in his heritage and his history with his father when portraying viewpoints, even though he also worked as a writer and had a background with studying literature. This can be seen with his constant references to salmon, which was a cultural staple of the Spokane tribe. This also reflects his actions in the story, as he tends to have the instinctive desire of picking up Indian hitchhikers despite the situation. The only question I have is that while he seems culturally tuned to his thoughts, I can’t link this with his homosexual experiences on pages 31-32. The only real link in this scene to his culture comes when he is in the bathroom afterward and says that he smells like salmon. My only guess is that he felt more like an Indian at that time since he had been with the stereotype of a tough, ruthless Indian fighter. He states that he felt tougher, so I can only assume that he also felt a little closer to his heritage, but in a strange way.

One link between the two stories I also found interesting was the idea of a woman’s view towards white men. In the Toughest Indian in the World, the narrator dates a white woman from work. Apparently she refused to date white men and only men of color. When he asked her why, she stated that white men only bored her because they only talked about their fathers (pg. 25). This links to Assimilation on page 6 when Mary Lynn is discussing white men and their ways. She refers them as “21st century Willie Lomans, who only wanted to be better men than their fathers had been.” I just found this to be an interesting way of connecting the first two stories and the theoretically separate views of race.

Toughest Indian - Miranda --freshndaktchn, Fri, 04 Nov 2005 15:04:29 -0500 reply
Starting with Assimilation, I couldn’t even finish the story before I found something to research and talk about. Mary Lynn keeps referring to herself as a Coeur d’Alene. And maybe it’s just me, but I had no idea what she was talking about. It’s hard to relate to a story when you have no idea where the main character is coming from or what the customs of her people are. So I looked up the Coeur d’Alene tribe in the USA. Apparently the tribe was named this by the French. It means “heart of the awl” as they were excellent traders. I didn’t find much else about their customs or traditions but they own their own reservations and operate many large businesses therein. This novel has been the easiest to read for me as well. The words flow almost like a fictional novel as opposed to a typed e-mail or a documentary or a speech as most of the other books in this class have read so far. The language is easy to understand because it is not written by a foreign author. The topics are American, as is the writer of the novel so for me it’s easier to relate. However, I know nothing about Native American culture whatsoever, so it’s still slightly foreign in a way for me. I haven’t read much of the novel so I can’t elaborate on the stories but from the few pages I’ve read so far it seems as though Mary Lynn has tapped into a deep desire of all women. Personally I don’t think it’s uncommon for a woman to feel bored with her relationship and want something more. I do find it odd that she is married to a white man, because I didn’t think it was traditional for Native Americans to marry outside of their tribes etc. But all the same, she wanted to find someone nameless and unimportant to have an affair with. She wasn’t going to judge him or know him but sleep with him and toss him away. She was simply looking for the darkest skinned man she could find, and found him. This is not atypical from what I know about affairs, for a woman to find the first person she sees to be the victim. The less attachment the easier it is to commit the affair and not feel as guilty about it. All in all the very brief section of this novel that I have read so far is great. I enjoy the way the words flow and it’s an easy novel to read, understand, and relate to. Might be my favorite.

Katie Amos - Toughest Indian Response --kamos, Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:09:24 -0500 reply
We touched on most of the stories and themes from The Toughest Indian in the World, but one story we did not discuss in class was “Indian Country”. I felt that it was just as interesting and humorous as the other stories, and so chose to discuss it here on the wiki.

“Indian Country” is about Low Man, who is an author, and who goes to meet a woman who he later finds has run off and gotten married. He then, by chance, comes across an old friend whose partner’s parents aren’t so thrilled that their daughter is a lesbian with a white woman. The situation that arises when Low Man, Tracy, Sara, Sid, and Estelle are all at a restaurant together, carries on the idea that Sherman Alexie possibly feels that love isn’t just sexual or physical, but a connection that one human being has with another. An example of this can be seen on page 142, during their meeting at the restaurant when Sid and Low Man get into a discussion about Jesus. Sid, being very religious, is appalled by the fact that Low Man says Jesus was gay as well as providing an explanation for why he thought so. In this way, Low Man is saying to Sid that if he loves Jesus so much then he should love Sara too, not because she is a lesbian, but because she is a human being, and his daughter.

Another thing I found interesting about the story was the paragraph on page 144 that is seen from Sara’s point of view. It begins, “Sara looked at Low and wondered yet again why Indian men insisted on being warriors”, and ends, “Put down your fucking guns and pick up your kids.” This paragraph says to me that at least the character of Sara seems to think that every Indian man she’s known has been out to prove something, fight someone, and disregard everything except what he is obsessing over. What she wants more than anything is for her father to get over his anger and accept and love her. The ending of the story, when Low Man asks Sid what he will do when his daughter is gone also speaks to the same idea. I think this is so because he is asking Sid not only what he will do when his daughter is no longer a part of his life, but also what is he going to obsess over and be angry about next.

Overall, I feel that “Indian Country” is Sherman Alexie’s way of telling readers to be accepting of one another despite any differences. I also think he is examining the anger he sees in many Indian men as something that restrains them as people.

The Grossest Indian Stories in the World --sbaldwin, Fri, 02 Dec 2005 12:09:44 -0500 reply
Audrey: I'm sorry you reacted so strongly to this - now, I'm not totally sure I understand where your response is coming from. Is it simply at the depiction of these things? I mean, Alexie certainly doesn't seem to be arguing that the sex scenes in the Sin Eaters are a good thing, right? The older woman and the boy are clearly forced and it's clearly meant to evoke the holocaust, the nazis, and so on. So, it seems to me we should certainly expose and decry these actions. I suppose the scene at the end of the title story is more ambiguous, but I'm not sure it's overdone - I mean, there's not much detail, right? So, it seems to me the point would be the fact of the depiction rather than the position of the author? This leads to the question of what should be depicted - are some things off limits? Now, South by Southwest - surely this is kind of charming? I mean, there's no sexual relation, right? Just a sort of absurd love relation...

Charlotte Harris --sbaldwin, Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:01:12 -0500 reply
Charlotte: Thnaks for your comments. Nice point about the title. Yes, they do all relate to that notion of the toughtest indian in the world. Certainly there's a balance of reality and humor about reservation life. Why do you think Alexie described the sexual relation in the Sin Eaters? I suppose one reason is to show the dehumanization of the indians and the cruelty of the whites. What else? How does "blood" play into this (they whites keep mentioning this)? Oh, what other book did you read by Alexie?

What's love got to do with it? --mscott, Sat, 03 Dec 2005 10:00:25 -0500 reply
The presentation given that discussed the idea of “love” on the reservation was very interesting. Homosexuality in particular was discussed several times. The stigma associated with homosexuality seems absent. The idea of love seems true—no discrimination, even love without penetration. Love is love. Sex is sex. In any form, attraction is accepted. Although the characters in the story seems to be somewhat disassociated from the stigma, the idea that the author included the passages for shock value was discussed in class. Sadly, homosexuality carries with it a sort of stigma in mainstream society. The New Jersey governor didn’t resign due to his adultery—adultery is normal in a healthy, red-blooded American male, the resigned due to homosexual part of the affair. So, it can be assumed most readers would certainly be shocked by the imagery of two naked Native American men lying in a sort of loving embrace. The question then arises of the authors motive to use shock. Certainly shocked readers continue to read. Shock enthralls and captivates the reader. I think that he may have used shock to desensitize the reader. Possibly, the author may have shocked the reader to leave them feeling a sense of “Shame on Me”. I should hope that those who experience shock experience some introspection and self-criticism. Love on the reservation is certainly a little unlike the rest of the America. My little optimistic heart wants to believe that the love that exists on the reservation is pure and honest---not some shock factor or quota-meeting sex game.

sarah haas --sbaldwin, Mon, 05 Dec 2005 12:18:59 -0500 reply
Sarah: Good point that Alexie is dealing with general problems of minority identity and language (or lack there of) in contemporary America. It would be interesting to compare his stories to other, parallel stories of the kind you're describing. "Assimilation" as a story and as a general issue might prove a way into this. At the same time, to what degree is the situation of Native Americans unique/specific? Of course, every minority group will have specific experience, but it seems to my Alexie see Native American experience as crucial and critical to the very definition of "America." What do you think? For instance, what is specific and irreducible about Native American "assimilation"?

Wild Indian~Jbradley --sbaldwin, Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:26:30 -0500 reply
Jessica: I'm glad you like the book. You're right, it grabs you, it's funny, it's a bit shocking, and overall pretty entertaining to read. I wonder if you can answer your own question about "Assimilation"? Who was the woman - or rather, even if she didn't have a direct connection to Jeremiah and Mary Lynn, can you discuss what she meant, want she represented in bringing them back together, or perhaps what she symbolized in terms of their relationship? You do a great job picking up on patterns of imagery (e.g. smell) and narrative (e.g. the dream/fantasy of the stories). Why do you think there's the emphasis on smell and touch? Is it only to shock? Why the salmon - for instance?

Yikes!! --sbaldwin, Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:36:27 -0500 reply
Kristina: There is a fair amount of sexuality in these stories, though I don't think it's the only thing. Why is it there, do you think? Certainly in "Assimilation," the infidelity is in the foreground but not super-explicit. So, some of the shock is the explicit detail and some is the general issue of representing sexuality, i.e. perhaps it would be better if described but we didn't know the details? So, ok, still the question of why Alexie includes it? For instance, the two men at the end of the Toughest Indian in the World did shock others when it was first published. What was Alexie saying? Perhaps something about the desire to be "authentic" - but what? It's fine not to prefer books with explicit sexuality. I am interested, though, to hear your thoughts on why this material is included by the author.

Craig Joseph --sbaldwin, Tue, 06 Dec 2005 08:44:35 -0500 reply
Craig: I notice a number of other students react to the sexuality and vulgarity. So, it's worth talking about. Do you think it's more or less in this story? And what role does it play - I mean, is it's role to shock? If so, why? Second, I'm interested in your reading of the ending of Assimiliation. It seems to me that the final line, the one you quote, is in some way central - it's something about loving each other across the distance. So, what's the distance, what is it? Thinking about that traffic jam, it's a kind of image of culture, the traffic jam as image of assimilated white culture, with the two of them watching for the other's movement and pattern in the jam.

Craig Joseph --sbaldwin, Tue, 06 Dec 2005 08:48:45 -0500 reply
Craig: The immediacy of taste and touch is everywhere here, yes. It's hard to miss the salmon. What does it mean? I suppose there's some pun on semen in the title story. There's the everyday factuality of salmon for native americans living in the area - as a food source and as part of their life. There's certain symbolic resonances of salmon: it knows to swim upstream, it knows - somehow, genetically - where it's home is, despite the difficulty of swimming upstream. There's a kind of gentle irony in salmon as an image as opposed to something more stereotypical (warlike?).

Easy to follow Indian --sbaldwin, Tue, 06 Dec 2005 08:57:38 -0500 reply
Mandy: You've done a good job paying attention to the way the stories are told. Yes, interesting to consider Alexie's use of female narrator / focus for the first story. It does seem to work, even though it's pretty much the exception in here (most seem to reverse the roles). I think you're write that Mary Lynn is sarcastic, pessimistic but good-humored and she loves her husband despite the cultural divide, so there's a kind of difference between the individual subject and the cultural subject. So, why do you think the title story is told so different - how does the author choose the different narrative approaches to meet the needs of the story?

Toughest Indian, Steve Sinning --sbaldwin, Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:52:50 -0500 reply
Steve: It's true that the ending of Assimilation is much more action-packed than the earlier parts, or at least the ending is more straight-forward, whereas earlier much is happening in memory, in thought, in retrospect, and so on. Clearly the event on the bridge is significant and meant to reflect on the rest of the story. OK, how so? For instance, what is the outcome of Mary Lynn realizing that it's not Jeremiah who jumped? Yes, it means they realize they love each other, as you note, but can we relate this to the notion of "assimilation"? How might this factor into the "distance" mentioned in the stories final lines?

Autumn Means --sbaldwin, Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:21:27 -0500 reply
Autumn: The title "Assimilation" could refer to indians assimilating to white society, but also simply to the complexity of assimilating information, modern culture, etc. I'm thinking this because of the way the story both does and doesn't foreground native american issues. I think this goes with the sense that they're both caught up by stereotypes and have an objective/ironic distance on them, as you point out. Can race ever cease to be an issue - would we want it to be - no matter how much the joking? But are the jokes part of the problem here (leading to the infidelity) or are they part of the couple's bond?

Jennings (Jay) Lyons --sbaldwin, Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:41:01 -0500 reply
Jay: Certainly the action and sex are topics that we associate with drama, with stories in the media, and so on. Do you think Alexie put them in here solely for that? Why incldue these dramatic element, and how does it contribute to the overall story? OK, no take Mary Lynn: there is a lot of hatred there. Why? If we connect it to race - to her sense of assimilation, to her anger at the white world but also loathing of the indian world (the best example she finds is this guy that disgusts her - then do we see the anger as justified? Is the hate personal - towards her husband - or at a different level? Or somehow both, and mixed together? Thinking of the vivid image of "everybody trapped on a bridge with black water pushing against their foundations" - could this be an image of race relations? Everybody stuck on this very modern space of the metal bridge, with a torrent breaking and destroying foundations? (What would foundations be, in this case, metaphorically?)